Comments on: Club UNITY proposal gets denied

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 23:44:03 +0000

LOL @ Terry’s comment

By: Sean

Sean — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 04:52:59 +0000

And Kim-

I completely agree with you. Thank you for your support in an effort to make a fair schooling environment for everyone.

To those opposing any positive comment-

It is not us forcing our “beliefs” onto you. Gay students do not have a gun to your head forcing you to attend these clubs.

By: Sean

Sean — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 04:39:19 +0000

I applied to Flagler this year expecting it to be like any other college in respect to student’s rights. To be completely honest, this isn’t about the conflicting views of whether gay students have the “choice” to be gay. Sexuality is not an overnight decision and cannot change like the weather. The lesson to be learned is that gay students will not change their lifestyle because of a few issues in the administration. I can personally admit that it isn’t a choice, but I respect the contrasting views of those that are shielded from the views of our current accepting society.

I am attending Flagler this year as a freshman, and I’m personally appalled that a club such as this “cannot be allowed”. The school seems to be extremely accepting of it’s students. I understand that the argument of gay rights is a dichotomy, but that should not get in the way of a support group for it’s students. Happy students make a happy college environment.

By: Veronica Holt

Veronica Holt — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 00:55:22 +0000

If students can’t be allowed to promote tolerance, how are they to be expected to go out in the real world and interact with a variety of others with different beliefs. I can only hope that one of these years, the administration will have a change of heart. Hopefully soon, the students will not have to fight this battle.

By: Veronica Holt

Veronica Holt — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 00:48:34 +0000

It is disheartening to see that Flagler students are still fighting this battle just to build a relationship of tolerance amongst themselves.

By: Kim H.

Kim H. — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:20:32 +0000

tol·er·ance

a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one’s own; freedom from bigotry.

Think about your beliefs…how you would feel if you were discriminated against because of them?

big·ot·ry

stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.

Wouldn’t it be nice to live in a world free from bigotry.

By: Kim H.

Kim H. — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:19:53 +0000

tol·er·ance

a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one’s own; freedom from bigotry.

Think about your beliefs…how you would feel if you were discriminated against because of them.

big·ot·ry

stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.

Wouldn’t it be nice to live in a world free from bigotry.

By: Stephanie Hicks

Stephanie Hicks — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:19:11 +0000

Andrew,
No one is forcing you to abandon your beliefs, club unity is promoting tolerance and that means tolerance of other peoples view points as well. If the presence of this club on campus would force anyone to abandon their beliefs couldn’t the same be said for the FOUR Christian clubs in existence. As an atheist my views are not compromised by the presence of these clubs or the schools use of prayer during events such as convocation and graduation. You must not be secure in your beliefs if the presence of a club could sway them so easily.

Club Unity is not about gay and lesbian activism, ITS ABOUT UNITY! [duh] “It is the goal of this organization to promote UNITY of all people regardless of their sexual orientation.” It is ridiculous that my High school had a GSA [gay, straight alliance] and that in a college where we are all supposed to be adults we don’t. I am absolutely disgusted in Flagler College’s administration for not approving such an important club especially in the year 2007.

Sincerely,
Stephanie Hicks.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:04:52 +0000

Students willingly attend this organization; in doing so, they submit to its governance. Part of what makes America so great is that we ‘vote’ for organizations by buying their products or reject them by going elsewhere. If a person is truly outraged by this organization, a vote of no confidence is achieved by not contributing or leaving altogether.

I am a product of this school, so I know first-hand. I have never been so discriminated against in my life by the same type of individuals wanting to form this club (many of whom wanted to start the first). Make no mistake-this organization doesn’t aim to “promote a positive image.” It wants to force acceptance. Acceptance necessitates rejection of some other set of beliefs. Therefore, in demanding tolerance of your beliefs, I am being forced to abandon mine.

By: Kim H

Kim H — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:49:19 +0000

Eric, your post is a VERY GOOD argument for why we need more clubs like this in the world and at this college.

Perhaps you should think about leaving Flagler College.

By: Bobby

Bobby — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:36:29 +0000

Although I completely disagree with arguments suggesting that LGBT individuals have a “choice” to choose their lifestyle, the fact that this is even an issue of discussion is insulting. If it was true that these individuals have a choice concerning their sexual orientation, the argument is still absurd. For one, hypothetically, they have every right to make this “choice,” because lifestyle choices are the right of every American. Almost every club on campus supports a lifestyle choice, and there are many. Secondly, I find it hard to imagine how people can claim that LGBT individuals have made a “choice” to be the way they are. For many, their lifestyles are more complicated and demanding than a typical straight individual. For example, 10 percent of Gay individuals attempt suicide at least once in their lifetime. It seems strange that this instance of occurence could be influenced by a “choice.” And in response to the previous post, suggesting that it should be a decision to “act upon their sexual preferences” is also insulting. I have to ask Eric, “do you consciously wake up in the morning, form a mental debate with yourself, and then make a choice to act upon your sexual preferences?” I highly doubt it. The way I presume you see yourself and your sexuality is equivalent to the way most LGBT individuals perceive theirs, and to suggest otherwise is ignorant and self-serving.

By: Eric

Eric — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:35:41 +0000

Terry,

Do GBLT people have the choice to act upon their sexual preferences? Yes, they do but to debate “lifestyle decision” or not would only waste my time and yours. There is just as much scientific and genetic evidence to supoort that it is a decision that one makes. What you or I believe or find to be true through our own scientific bias is not the point it is still a choice whether or not you act upon something or not. Again, the college has made a choice not to recognize the club. Why doesn’t UNITY make the choice to meet in another location off campus? Lastly, what happened to Matthew Shepard was so unbelievably saddening and any other form of violence towards others because of their lifestyle is deplorable and awful. There is no place for these kind of people in this society and what we do to them is a whole other subject. Great debate and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

Best Regards,
Eric

By: Terry

Terry — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:53:59 +0000

Eric, while I respect your opinion and your right to state your opinion, you ARE very ignorant in some of your “facts.” Most glaringly, a person’s sexual preference is not a choice. It might be for some people, but for 95% of GBLT people, it’s something they’re born into, not a “lifestyle decision.”

If you believe otherwise, well, you’re wrong, and there’s plenty of scientific and genetic evidence to prove that you’re wrong.

By: Mark Adams

Mark Adams — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:16:19 +0000

hey eric you made some good points, but i believe you were wrong in your assertion that club unity is just a “group that promotes gay and lesbian activism”. As I am sure you know, gays have faced discrimination for many years, and from everything i know about this group they only want to promote tolerance and understanding. What is so wrong about allowing a group to be on campus that promotes peacefulness among students? that promotes tolerance instead of beatings and lynching (see Matthew Shepherd)? Can you answer that?
and jack i agree with you, this whole thing is unforgivable.

By: Jack Weaver

Jack Weaver — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:25:16 +0000

unforgivable

By: Eric

Eric — Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:10:14 +0000

I am absolutely shaking my head at this ridiculous rhetoric that I have seen written on this subject. Please contact the ACLU, Al Sharpton (by the way he is against homosexuality) and any other person on the face of the earth. The United States is all about having the freedom to have choices and make them. The organization that you are asking to form is so bogus it makes my head spin. It is a group that promotes gay and lesbian activism so please spare us with your carbon copy blueprint you use to make sure you don’t describe actually what it promotes. I know, because someone does not have the same beliefs as you they are a bigot or believe in discriminating against others. Guess what? Just because you have chosen to form a club the college administration can choose to not allow it. You use the word discrimination and it makes me sick. To equate what African Americans went through in the 60′s to not being allowed to have a club because of your chosen lifestyle is ludicrous and not to mention absurd. Choice comes with freedom just like you made the choice to get out of bed in the morning or go to Flagler College. There is no discrimination or the attempt to keep you down it is people making choices. Feel free to choose to leave Flagler, by the way there were 80% of applicants rejected, and go to another college. In fact why don’t you start UNITY College or UNITY University it’s your choice. The ignorance that has been spouted by other posters on this subject has me shaking my head. And before I get the bigot blast or some attempt to label others who don’t believe like you do as ignorant go ahead. That’s your choice!!!!!

Best Regards,
Eric Anderson

By: Bobby

Bobby — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:25:53 +0000

In response to Adrian’s comment, I had no prior knowledge that discrimination was part of college life at Flagler. If I had, I would have more carefully considered my application. That being said, I will point out that I love Flagler College, I have a great community in the student body and faculty, and I am not prepared to “accept this reality.” In response to the comment made about no one taking any effort to help change the current situation, I believe this was a comment based on naive thinking. I am part of a group of over two hundred (not including the 160 members of club unity) who are not willing to “disrupt campus life” or “take the effort. In the past 48 hours I have given an interview to the St. Augustine Record, which was published yesterday, as well as scheduled a meeting with Dr. Abare concerning this “presidential appeal system” which no one seems to know much about. I have also contacted the ACLU, something you thought no one would take the “effort” to do. I am also planning a meeting on monday night to discuss the situation and what can possibly be done to change it. There is no small instance of discrimination, and I, as a student, feel personally discriminated against and attacked by the administration, a small group of individuals who are supposed to represent and protect the interests of the faculty and student body. They have clearly failed. I have been active in interacting with the media over the situation, hoping that it will somehow generate negative press on the issue. Sadly, I fear that this will not be enough. We are hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. In additional comment on “disrupting campus life,” did you see the two people that protested the censorship of the Gargoyle last spring? These individuals want a say in the college, and I hope most of them are still willing to stand up for students’ rights. I am not one to leave a place because I don’t like what’s going on, I plan to stay and I plan to fight. It’s 2007, what’s going on SHOULD be a non-issue, but unfortunately, it’s something we have to DEAL with, not ACCEPT, and I will fight until I graduate, and hopefully I will be able to make some sort of change or impact that will benefit students in the future. The advocacy group I belong to is on Facebook, named “Change Flager College,” and we will be the ones holding the meeting. If anyone has any questions regarding our mission or the meeting on moday, just view the group site, or contact me directly at RWebb@flagler.edu.

By: admin

admin — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:08:22 +0000

Terry, the comments on the Gargoyle site go through an auto filter to detect profane language because we had a problem with some extremely inappropriate conversation in the past. (We also get an abundance of spam comments that need to be auto deleted). It is not edited by any member of the staff or the administration. We’ll look into it to see if we can override that setting.

Thanks!

By: Terry

Terry — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:02:25 +0000

And I cannot believe, looking over my way too long comment, that Flagler apparently deems the “L” word (a term for gay women) to be so inappropriate that it must be censored. On a newspaper website!

Then again, should I really be surprised at that, when the college itself deems its gay students inappropriate?

By: Terry

Terry — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:58:37 +0000

I think this topic definitely merits a lot of serious discussion.

In response to Adrian…are you really saying that because something that’s not fair or possibly discriminatory is just how things are and have always been at Flagler that the students and parents should just accept it?

I think I must be misunderstanding your comment because I can’t believe that anyone would really suggest that. Imagine how America would be today if everyone in the first half of the 20th century had just looked around at the racism and intolerance and said, “Well, this is (intolerant city/state) and it’s to be expected, we knew they didn’t like (race/creed/sexual preference) when we moved here, so why bother changing it.”

I think it’s unfair to call naivety on the people demanding change. There’s no document or rule that says Flagler has to be straight, rich white kids only and it’d be foolish, illegal and immoral if there were such a rule. The students, faculty, and parents see something that they believe is unfair, and want to change it. And honestly how would you expect a potential student to gauge the ratio of gay versus straight students at a college, if that’s something someone were interested in finding out? My own experience at Flagler seemed to indicate that Flagler had a higher number of gay and lesbian students than most colleges. I also found that the majority of all students, gay or straight, were extremely open minded and accepting of all of their fellow students, no matter what preference, religion, or race.

One of the things that makes college such a great experience is being around people from different backgrounds, and learning with them and getting to know them.

And maybe I’m being a bit idealistic and naive personally, but I like to think that anyone capable of getting into a college is educated and cultured enough to be tolerant of their fellow students, no matter what.

So in my eyes, I’m thinking…the student body seems to be calling for Club UNITY. The parents and alumni are calling for the club. The faculty seem to be strongly in favor of it. I’d even guess that a lot of the administration is in favor of it. But probably less than 20 individuals, out of the thousands that make up students, faculty, administration, alumni, parents, etc., less than 20 people are the ones with power, and the ones with the money to effect change, and they’re the ones who are denying this club the right to exist.

I won’t call names, as I don’t know anything for certain. But I think we can all take educated guesses here.

I just don’t understand this fear of gay students and straight students having a club that promotes understanding, tolerance, friendship and values. Is it a fear of gay students in general? Does being gay really conflict with the values of Flagler College that much? I certainly hope not.

Our country has gone through movements to give back unalienable rights to various groups of people, with the women’s and civil rights movements being the most important. We’ve been smart enough, as a country, to come to our senses and realize that women are equal to men and have RIGHTS, and that African-Americans are equal to Caucasians (and every other race and ethnicity) and they have RIGHTS. When are we going to finally come around and realize that our gay population also has the same rights?

Again, perhaps I am being extremely naive and idealist and optimistic, but what’s wrong with that?

I just fail to see how this club would present a problem, and I fail to see how it goes against Flagler’s mission.

And Adrian, I think you underestimate the will and the power that the student body alone has. I think we all saw earlier this year with the protests after the controversy with the Gargoyle that the students will stand up for their beliefs to make change.

Now it seems that gay students go against Flagler’s “white only, Christian only” attitude. This is all getting by because, as you said, it’s a private college, we should know better. But gee, darn the pesky college students for forward thinking and wanting the college to move out of the era it was founded.

As an alum, I personally am not and will not ever give a single solitary cent to this college. That’s what power I have to voice my disapproval at this decision and other decisions.

I respect different points of view, but not when they are ignorant and discriminatory. And I certainly hope that the students, faculty, parents, and alumni will not just accept this horrid situation and move on. No good change ever came about in our country by just accepting the wrongs.